Truth?

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 05/18/2020 at 11:30 • Filed to: None

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ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:35

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*turns up in a $1800 BMW*

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:37

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Yeah I'll say that checks out. 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:37

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Tis the truth btw...and not just for non-American cars

Everyone thinks that I’m mad rich or something....coz I own a 20 year old sports car, never mind the 5 year old truck parked besides me.

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:39

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Look, he’s the one that said Germans are out of touch, not me.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:41

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I find that these days a car not purpose built for a task like hauling people or crap is a “luxury item” therefore snob. So a $10,000 Miata is a luxury item, a $30,000 chevy PU is not.

jimz > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:43

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yep. camo is the style for the suburban set now. most of whom probably have never set foot out in the field.

especially the pricey Under Armour stuff. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:43

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working class =/= poor, fwiw

Plenty of tradesmen make bank.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 11:45

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But the tradesmen are using the truck for its intended purpose. 

EL_ULY > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:48

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You can maybe buy 3 of THESE for the price of one Platinum F-150 4x4 or King Ranch Superduty

Future next gen S2000 owner > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:48

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For some reason trucks don’t project wealth for most people . Kinda like Harley’s and Ducatis. A full dress bagger Harley ain’t cheap.

Discerning > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:49

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Not always. An electrician, plumber, HVAC business owner is going to have an econoline, express, transit or some other type of van for their work 99% of the time. Sure, there are some trades that genuinely call for a work truck, but again most of those are going to be frame trucks with custom beds. Even contractors that roll up in their King Ranch or Platinum trucks will likely return a week later behind the wheel of a van or second work truck pulling a trailer.

Future next gen S2000 owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 11:49

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True. Some one needs to tell that to the hs guidance counselor telling kids they need a BS make a decent living. If you are good at a trade, you can make good money.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:49

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Pretty sure 90% of the people here who drive high-trim pickup trucks are not working class...and use them for nothing but the weekly grocery run...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:52

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Depending on the job, it doesn’t need to get dirty.

Also, blue-collar folks can just buy stuff they want , too.

$90k is a ridiculous exaggeration, of course. It’s possible to buy a truck for that much, but how few actually do?

Just playing devil’s advocate - I don’t understand the point of the tweet.

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:57

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In Utah its pretty well known what kind of truck driver is the working man and which is playing urban cowboy. lifted ram 2500 with stickers all over the back window ? douchbag. King ranch F250 with 2 tone? Wealthy retiree. F150 with leveling kit? Manager level office worker.  There is no pretense that all truck drivers are created equall.  

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 11:58

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But you can’t roll coal in a Beamer...

interstate366, now In The Industry > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/18/2020 at 12:00

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You could if you really, really wanted to, since they’ve had  a few diesels for sale in the US over the years.

interstate366, now In The Industry > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 12:00

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UserNotFound > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/18/2020 at 12:01

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I mean ... that is almost one definition of “luxury”

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > interstate366, now In The Industry 05/18/2020 at 12:03

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That might be an interesting hack.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Future next gen S2000 owner 05/18/2020 at 12:04

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BS. BA is where it’s at! :)

Ermahgerd! > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 12:04

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Sure, but they aren’ t buying a King Ranch F-350  to do it.

Ermahgerd! > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 12:11

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In 2019 the average price paid for a new pickup was around $50k, s o t he point of the tweet is that any judgement from these owners about someone being elitist because they drive a BMW is hypocritical.

EL_ULY > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 12:13

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There was a scene in King of the Hill once where Louanne said something like, “imma be the most famous makeup artist and drive the biggest truck in Hollywood” A truck being the ultimate sym bol of weal th.

Especially in Texas, this tweet is odd because the working class (poor and well off) and the elite literally drive the same sort of vehicle.

Why vehicles are a symbol of “you’ve made it in life” is the dumbest thing to begin with. I’d rather spend $22k on a 2020 Corolla hatchback with a 6 speed manual than the same for THIS .

Ermahgerd! > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/18/2020 at 12:14

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I think you are dramatically underestimating what a new pickup costs. The average price last  year was around $50k.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ermahgerd! 05/18/2020 at 12:15

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I get that, but there’s an anti-red-state subtext to it all...

Just because someone drives a truck and wears camo, it doesn’t make them a Republican, either.

XJDano > Discerning 05/18/2020 at 12:16

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It’s the estimators with full size trucks and company gas cards who don’t need trucks. It’s definitely a status thing. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > EL_ULY 05/18/2020 at 12:20

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Like mama always said, “Don’t judge a book by its cover.”

Everyone has different preferences. Plenty of people would never spend $20k on a car, regardless of how much money they have, and some will gladly spent $40k on a car while living with their parents.

Ermahgerd! > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 12:22

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You  got a point there . This is essentially a political tweet, not a car comment.

Nick Has an Exocet > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/18/2020 at 12:26

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Bad take. I daily a Miata. It’s an amazing city car, easy to park, gets through traffic easily, and gets decent gas mileage. People who buy Miatas aren’t just chucking them in garages to look at. The real luxury is commuting solo in a range rover .

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ermahgerd! 05/18/2020 at 12:29

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The car comment carries weight - I’m sure I’m judged completely different in my now-12-year-old and ~$15k BMW than someone in their brand new $45k SUV or truck, but I’ve always pretty much been of the thought that if someone judges me based solely on what I drive, that’s on them...

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/18/2020 at 12:34

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Tdi VW guys do it regularly

ranwhenparked > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 12:38

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My first job out of college was working in a fundraiser/community relations type role for a large nonprofit. When my 14 year old Cadillac proved not up to the significantly increased mileage I was driving, I started looking at a CPO Jaguar, which was very reasonably priced. The more senior employee who was in charge of mentoring me got really upset and insisted that I could not have that sort of car, because nobody would be willing to donate any money to a nonprofit if their rep showed up in a luxury car. He drove a loaded F-150 Platinum that cost easily 3x what I was looking at spending on a Jag, and acknowledged that people look at trucks differently and it wasn’t a problem for him.

Even if he didn’t have a point, 20something year old me probably still dodged a bullet, as that early production XF would have been out of warranty in no time, given the kind of miles I was doing. 

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 12:44

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Perception can be an interesting thing. I’ve gotten a number of comments from more casual friends and acquaintances about the Jag along the lines of my goverment job must really be paying out. Then I point out that it is a three year old car that via the magic of depreciation I paid less for than the most stripped down base model new Civic or Corolla on a dealer lot.

.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 12:48

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One of my co-workers who only does delivery on the side, and is a teacher/ wrestling coach, made a big deal about my BMW and how fancy pants it is.

Mean while he drives a pearl white F-150 Platinum that, even if he bought it used cost 3-4 times what my 10,000 dollar 3 series cost.

Also in my town of 8,000  where the average income is 50k per year, there’s at least 10 Raptors roaming around everyday. It’s werid when Raptors are more common than used BMWs, but that’s a rural Midwest town for you. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/18/2020 at 12:53

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You can in a 335d

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 05/18/2020 at 12:54

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I will take your word at face value on that.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 12:55

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My brother still can’t comprehend how I bought a BMW, and how expensive it must be to own. Than I remind him that my monthly payment is 100 bucks less than his 2017 Corolla. And my loan term was a year shorter. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 05/18/2020 at 12:57

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I looked into them a bit before I bought my e90. The tuning potential is pretty crazy, but I chose a manual trans over making choo choo noises. 

fintail > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 13:12

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Definite truth. Also related to the weird fable that tradespeople are some kind of self-made built-it-yourself rough-and-tumble individualistic independent second coming of Horatio Alger heroes, while paper-pushing office-dwellers are some kind of coddled coastal elitists. I don’t think any industry in the economy is as subsidized, directly or indirectly, as housing, and most trades are related to housing. I’ll also add many tradespeople I’ve known who own a business had a lot of family help, if not downright gifts, to get there. Yeah, bui lt that yourself lol.

On the car subject, of all the MBs I’ve owned, the fintail and the 126 got the most “rich guy” attention from the rube on the street - the newer cars, especially non-AMGs attracted almost no attention, and the wagon is nearly invisible (I am not complaining).

interstate366, now In The Industry > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 05/18/2020 at 13:26

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My coworkers were like “wow, you have an Acura AND a Lexus, you’re so fancy!” Meanwhile the Lexus is 16 years old and got rebadged as a Toyota a month after I bought it.

Gone > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 13:29

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I resemble this remark and feel attacked lol. Realistically, m ost consider me a poor because I’m in a midsize even with it’s eye watering $45k sticker. Works out so much better than if I rolled up in a C class or 3 series somehow. Oil people generally drive the same 1/2 and 3/4 tons as the field guys and very very few midsize trucks. Most trucks are nicer trims (Lariats, Platinums, Raptors, Rebels, PWagons, Laramies, H ig h Country, etc) with 4wd , but mostly Fords. I have seen some absolutely shredded F-250/ 350 King Ranch in the field. Worms and deck hands make terrible life (financial and other) choices though.

Realistically the truck has displaced the car as the family vehicle, and it’s pretty obviou s in places like Texas. But with a much higher cost. Most of your city boys buy the fancy rigs, as do horse people. A lot of the ranchers appear to still drive the low and mid- level stuff. When I was growing up in west TX, hardly anyone had fancy trucks - if you had carpet your dad was   white collar.

I agree on the premise. I t’s funny how people view trucks vs cars. Plenty of dudes rolling trucks @ $70k sticker that think anyone in a lux brand car is rolling in money. Costa, Yeti, Salt Life, and firearm stickers and all that. Pulling boats or overloaded toy haulers. Fancy hog and deer guns, pricey camo, and fishing gear heading to hunting leases or offshore fishing trips . Blue collar money ...sure.

EL_ULY > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 14:42

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one could only dream lolz

ihm96 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 15:38

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Thats exactly how I feel too. The people that would judge me for pulling up in my 7K Z3 Coupe acting like I was a shit stain spoiled rich kid its just like welp I guess those people must not read many books past the cover.

DipodomysDeserti > Future next gen S2000 owner 05/18/2020 at 16:10

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Try being a teaching and explaining that to admins. I let one of my students know his dad, as self employed landscaper, is mostly likely pulling in more than me this year.

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 16:11

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The point of the Tweet is you can talk out your ass and people that don’t know any better will think you’re  clever. In this case, these people have probably never been working class.

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 16:13

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I grew up in the hardcore punk scene, and half my friends wear camo and drive trucks. I doubt any are Republicans, not that we’d give a shit.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Gone 05/18/2020 at 16:26

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Off topic:

$32 is better than $24 is better than $16...

Where do you think prices will settle in the second half of the year?

Gone > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/18/2020 at 17:26

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Works better as a freeflow discussion, but just pouring out the contents of my brain here...

Billion dollar question right there - even speculating seems really dumb at this point . It’s difficult to process all the info and make sense of any of it. The market feels more irrational than normal. Lots of variables - Trump twitter, current COVID, fall COVID 2 - Electric Bugaloo, OPEC+ (and Saudi acutal #s), FED money everywhere, fewer shale chp 11s than assumed, TX RRC fail, Russia, airline travel, rig counts dropping and supply shut-ins happened pretty quick, ever increasing renewable supply, China trade war number eight or whatever, hedge funds dumping energy stocks - but Robinhooders flocking to buy them by the thousa nds of shares (lol), summer driving season is upon us and stuff is re-opening - everything is crazy.

Layoffs have been ugly industry-wise, so I hope everyone is rightsized for the moment so that stops. I’m surprised at the $32 as the demand numbers are pretty awful - blows my mind honestly . Storage about went full in Cushing but is coming down, lots of floating storage now however . Gas demand is on the uptick, oil some, natty gas here is in trouble (priced out of market last I saw). May demand is assumed down like ~22MMbbl/day on avg worldwide IIRC. Lots of speculation of demand being down 9-12MMbbl/day avera ge for the year and airline travel not coming back until 2022-23 (or 24 depending). Jet fuel demand is super low as flying hasn’t come back at all by TSA numbers. I think the US supply is down ~2MMbbl/day-ish anymore but add in OPEC+ cuts and inven tory still hasn’t adjusted to market conditions yet. Think coal is pretty much dead now (but for energy, not met coal) - not oil, but hey my opinion free of charge .  

EIA says demand back to 95MMbbl/day by EoY - sounds high if air travel doesn’t return, but may be reasonable. I think mid- $40 range as it seems reasonable in a low to mid-90s MMbbl/day demand environment with little to no supply constraint . At least it feels right if nothing else. Might pop above ($50 sounds insane tbh) and I think it’ll be under $30 again before it sees $40. A second round of infections in the fall (shutdown or not) may curtail demand strongly. A dartboard would be more accurate than me, honestly.

That’s really long for what normally shou ld n’t be a difficult question. Hope you and your wife are doing well and still employed .

Future next gen S2000 owner > DipodomysDeserti 05/18/2020 at 17:32

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I know a spot where the full-time mechanics at a dam are pulling in more than the engineers at the facility. They have a hell of a union at that place.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Gone 05/18/2020 at 18:00

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Yeah, I won’t be surprised if we see another dip in prices. There are just waaay to many variables to have any confidence in where this is headed.

Thanks - both still employed for now! [knocks wood]

Urambo Tauro > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 19:00

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gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > ttyymmnn 05/18/2020 at 20:42

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My cousin got drunk and put on FB how he was grateful he only had a year left of $ 1k truck payments. given that the truck was already 4 years old, it took no time to think how much he signed up for. I was a bit bitter as he had been talking shit when I got the 911. He paid more for a truck then I did for a volt and 2 porsches.

phenotyp > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 05/19/2020 at 02:54

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When I tell people that my i3 was cheaper than a new Civic, they’re kinda dumbfounded.